My rule for buying back in after a bubble pop: Wait for it to stabilize. Not going to buy in mass panic/mania swings.

If it were actually the russions buying at BTC-e, the volume would be in BTC/RUR, but no the volume is in BTC/USD.

The greatest catalyst of this bubble is imo the grand delusion that "*random nationality* IS NOW BUYING BITCOIN LIKE CRAZY". And people blindly follow a Chinese exchange with no trading fees (thus probably heavily faked volume).  It's okay, i can make money from that.

More and more am I starting to believe that BTCChina is (for a large part) fake.

- Their volume reports are ridiculous. On the 3 minute chart they have almost exclusively 300 btc per candlestick.
- The whole rise-up at BTC-China seems orchestrated. Every sharp rise is nicely crafted into a short dip which then recovers in order to make others believe that it's safe to buy

And most compellingly

- During the crash the volume stays _THE SAME_ throughout. There is a sharp drop, but no panic selling at all! The volume is constant. This does not make any sense to me.
- Notice how every downward candle towards is also attempted to be caugt immediately - many many intermittent recoveries during a crash. It just doesn't make sense.

It's almost as if the whole exchange is scripted to make fake orders to amplify any movements seen on Gox. Zero trading fees would allow this.

=== I'm just speculating here ===

Yes, I saw that happening too. BTC-e and Bitstamp had some normal organic trades, while BTCChina ground to a halttogether with MtGox. Good that you bring it up. It fits my hypothesis (which is only a hypothesis at best)

As a reply to the guy asking what they would benefit: it's evident this rally is based upon "CHINA IS GOING CRAZY BUY BUY BUY". Knowing that, and having the power, and having money at the other exchanges, you can influence the movements and make a killing.

I don't think so. Everybody knows what everybody looks at: price and volume. It is general consensus (wrongfully) that the exchange with the highest volume is the 'leading' exchange.

Both price and volume can be easily faked. Make it onto the generic chart indexers, and you have yourself a perfectly orchestrated fake 'leading' exchange.

Also, notice how nobody is actually able to access btcchina.com at all, apparently for several days now.

Bots and manipulation by fraudulent chinese exchange.

Hey it's an explanataion you don't have to like it.

Well there was a triangle forming earlier around 750, but that one turned into a limp dick.

One does not simply draw a log line starting at the start of the bubble :/ Take the entire history for that.

Still with 7 transactions per second being the hard cap limit, I will always have a big bear in me telling me this will never grow out to compete with credit card companies. And also this issue can't be fixed.

The utopian feature of bitcoin, on which the whole "unlimited growth" picture is based (deflationary currency), simply can't be realized. With 7 transactions per second, Bitcoin can NEVER be used as a full-grown global currency for day-to-day transactions. Once the general public fully understands the implications of a 7 tps limit, this will ignite the first cracks in the giant bubble we've been in since 2011.

Doesn't mean I can't make profits on this tremendous volatility though. Daytraders heaven, we are in now.

Imagine the utopian mass adoption that's being fed to the public.

Take a small country (or a large American city) with about 15 million inhabitants, or 5 million households.
Every household will have to do groceries about each other day, so that's 2.5 million customers in supermarkets each day countrywide.
Day has 24 hours, so that's 104166 transactions per hour
= 29 transactions per second

And this is for one small country only, for only the basic needs (food), and that's already 4 times what the Bitcoin network can physically handle.

You're not going to convince me that the Bitcoin protocol will ever be able to sustain a world economy for day-to-day transactions.

Hence why I'll always be bearish, even though it's a great market to profit from atm.

That is exactly my point as to why it would never be a CURRENCY in this format. Remember that this is the picture that is being fed to the general public, and they will invest based on this assumption. It took me weeks if not months of research to get a clear picture of what BTC is and how it is used - do not expect the general public to do the same right from the start. They will do that when the bubble starts to properly pop.

Not sure if your intention is to argue for or against me, but that exactly shows why the 7 tps limit is by design (thus should not be removed to ensure decentralization, another key point in bitcoin design) and makes it impossible for it to compete with credit card companies.

Though Ripple is centralized - does this not beat the purpose of Bitcoin entirely? In essence we'll have created a commodity like gold, but NOT a currency.

That depends entirely on what your stance is.

If you are in it to make profit in USD (like 99% of this market is doing atm), day trading to get USD gains is perfectly fine. And I say, in a market where there's currently (and practically always) the looming danger that the value of BTC goes through half, securing FIAT profits is not that bad an idea.

If you are a utopian true believer in BTC, believing it will go to 1 million USD per coin no matter what, yeah obviously don't sell then.

Rather some big whale at Gox wants dollars he can actually transfer back to his account, and is thus cashing out at Bitstamp. Added benefit: heavy buying will create upwards pressure on Bitstamp, meaning he can sell >2000 BTC there between 830 and 850 - which is exactly what's happening now.

What are you on? Those 2500 BTC were market sold

So basically this is the lone whale left at MtGox showing us that the entire orderbook is him, and he has unilateral power over the price at MtGox.

Nice play.

Are you a millionaire yet?

My thoughts: Someone put a sell order >20k BTC in, gox decided to rewind the orderbook output a few times on the way down so they have enough time to sell elsewhere.

Wow this actually triggers bots on Bitstamp. This is the second time that exactly during the Goxloop reset, a >50BTC market buy went through.

You do realize that in Poker, the ones losing the most are the ones who go all-in when their cards are not as strong?

Any livecharts for Huobi?

EDIT// LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL http://bitcoinity.org/markets/huobi/CNY

Look at that market depth. 300 BTC on the buy side orderbook, yet >1K BTC volume every hour? Hahahahah just say "OMG CHINA IS BUYING' and all the morons follow in high volume on the USD/EU exchanges. Doesn't matter I'm going to make money, but DAMN.

Look at that market depth. 300 BTC on the buy side orderbook, yet >1K BTC volume every hour? Hahahahah just say "OMG CHINA IS BUYING' and all the morons follow in high volume on the USD/EU exchanges. Doesn't matter I'm going to make money, but DAMN.

Why trust any Chinese exchange, really? OkCoin has been confirmed to fake it, BTCChina's volume dropped like a ROCk once they implemented fees (= HF bots not being able to do their work anymore), and Huobi is offering 0% fees.

Have fun trading at fake prices. I like taking advantage off of this.

Oh really, can you do your groceries with them and pay gas yet? No? Well fuck me but as long as you can't use it for the main human needs, it's not god damn money but a commodity and speculation. Speculation that it once will be the real money - which it might not be.

While everyone is bored, what about the transaction fee fraud Bitstamp is doing?

(I assume most of you trade there)

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=597647.0

I have but they've been doing this for a while. It's only now that I saw a shitload of the tiny buys into my sell wall that I got pissed and went public with my findings, so everyone can check their history.

It's been there for a while, but only recently when there is constantly a shitload of <0.002 BTC transactions has this become annoying enough for me to post about. Actually all trades below 0.01 BTC are already affected by this 'trick'.

It's called a bulltrap, fellas.

Either you've lost your glasses or you're looking at a different chart.

Shit, so, better put my savings in lottery tickets from now on, for one day they might buy you 20 stores.

/logic

And what, other than pure speculation (just like when you buy a lottery ticket), do you base that expectation on? By the few souls who said "BTC will be $100.000 one day"? At this moment there is no reason to expect a positive return on your investment. The long term upward trend that included the 3 bubbles at $32, $266 and $1200 has already been very convincingly breached downwards.

Strange though, during the multiple month long bull-run last year, I remember seeing an exact same pattern, though inverted (exponential ask-wall pedestal, slowly trailing linear bid-pedestal).

How peculiar.

How about the guy making bold claims puts the numbers where his mouth is instead?

Also


Just LOL. Let me take a look into my crystal ball for you

Selling to prevent additional losses if you are certain the price will drop lower, has never in the history of mankind been a bad idea. New traders should not buy into this bullshit of "don't sell if you bought higher!". It doesn't matter where you bought, low or high. If you feel it's going lower and you can't afford or don't want to take any more losses than the price you're at now, then you should sell. Plain and simple.

Telling people to hold and go for broke is borderline scamming.

Fixed that for you..

Fixed that for you.

BitChick, maybe a bit off-topic, but I'm wondering - about a little over a year ago, you and your husband were pouring your monthly savings all into Bitcoin. Are you still a permabull at this stage, and are you two still pouring every penny leftover each month straight into BTC?

Rather, with high risk comes the high probability of losing most of your investment (as this is practically the definition of 'high risk'), and merely a small chance at great rewards.

Else your investment would've been low risk, obviously..

I remember you pouring everything you had into BTC when it was $1200. Gonna find that topic now and bump it for the education of others. Being perma-anything is a bad thing, and greed has obscured both your visions. The descision of never selling anything as BTC was reaching ATH's was clearly a bad one.

IIRC, you bought heavily throughout and after the bubble at prices well over double what it's currently at.


Take all offense you want, that simply is what it's called. Are you not trying to make buttloads of money?

The point I was making is that your permabull greed has cost you about 300% since last december:


If you even bought in before the bubble, and STILL didn't want to sell at extremely elevated prices, I don't know if I can find a better example of greed in this entire forum.

My point being that being perma-anything blinded by greed is a really bad trait and will cost you most, of which you are a perfect example.

I'm not even saying wanting to make money is bad, I mean we're all here, are we not? I'm trying to make as much money as I can too.. I'm just using you as an example to the forum for how you can make buttloads of hypothetical money and then still lose most of it due to tunnel vision and stubbornness in your beliefs.


I hope you learn something from it, and if not you I hope someone else will. You've put all your money on one horse, and that's foolish.

I already figured it'd be best to leave religion out of this for the sake of not putting a bomb under this topic.

Victimizing yourself will not make your arguments any more or less valid, that's all I want to say about it really.

Well it could be a short discussion as well;

There's no way to tell if there is a divine entity, and there is no scientific reason for it to be there, nor any evidence of it existence. THE END!

Except science is not a religion, thank you, and it is the only thing that can produce 'miracles' with actual reproducibility.

You almost sound smug beforehand, as if you're being a better person by deciding to go somewhere where people are poor, and already portraying yourself as 'being humbled' before you even went.

You don't have the slightest clue what quantum physics is about, do you? Science is most definitely not a religion, it's a method. A very successful method towards generating understanding and technological progress from that understanding. Quantum physics has fuck-all to do with 'belief', to put it bluntly.

Go on then, state your point?

Now that Bitcoin is accepted by Paypal, which uses BitPay, I expect increased selling pressure. Every purchase made with BTC through Paypal will effectively equal selling those Bitcoin for FIAT. As the recipients of the transactions through Paypal will have to receive USD (I think 99.9% of vendors / ebay users does not have a bitcoin wallet anyway), every transaction paid with Bitcoin will be dumped on the nearest exchange immediately, so that PayPal (or rather, Bitpay and Coinbase) can pay out the recipient.

Therefore this is good for Bitcoin adoption, bad for Bitcoin price.

Why would you now suddenly buy Bitcoin first, to then immediately spend them on Ebay?

Right now, only if you already own Bitcoin, will you use Paypal's feature. For the short to semi-short term this will mean added selling pressure. Once word got out, and people are using Bitcoin more widespread, other people will think about getting into Bitcoin, but this is not something that happens in the next few weeks.

This was not common knowledge yet? C'mon guys.. It's literally on their site

https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-exchange-rates

And you can generate infinite numbers of addresses and cycle your coins through them, if you want to up that statistic. Any figure that can be manipulated that easily, cannot be used as an indicator for anything.

Where's fallllling when you need him? He didn't warn us this time

On the flipside, bears clearly had plenty of reason to be bearish.

Too bad you'll look back at that as being way too expensive in a few days.

No, I missed the boat half a year ago. Glad I didn't board though.

You're just one of those cultists who think upwards movement is natural and downwards movement is manipulation.

The whole way upwards was manipulated by fake China volume, Gox bots and whale manipulators. Don't kid yourself by saying the way to 1163 was natural.

Here we go!
Six month low!
Nice and slow.

Does Bitfinex do hidden orders? I'm not seeing any walls on Bitcoinwisdom, though many (large) trades are occurring right on the 300 mark.

Anyone still stating this is a manipulator 'trying to crash Bitcoin' instead of someone actually selling their coins, is genuinely deluded.

It's going perfectly well, he just wants to sell his 20K while keeping others from putting up sell walls under him. He's saying basically "Yo if you so want to sell right now, here's the offer, but everything else goes into my sellwall, KTHX". And so far, that's working out. A few people sold for 200 BTC, but in the meantime his wall got to offload 2000.

He simply wants out, that is all.


I was there™ and the battle actually lasted for the better part of a day.

The guy walks off with 8 million $ while having spent pennies.
Clearly burning money :/

Somehow, the fact that this topic explodes with train sounds and rocket pictures every time the price rises by $10, tells me the bear market is not quite over yet..

Which, by all means, does not mean no money can be made now. But I'm just saiyan.

You do realize that when everybody expects a bubble (like now), the chances of one actually happening are really slim?

When people think about new paradigms and Bitcoin being completely successful and retaining high prices, you're going to have a bubble.
When people think about 'a new bubble starting', they inherently say Bitcoin can't keep a high price and we're all in for a world of hurt.

Imagine the amount of casualties when that train crashes though. The ones on the outside (opportunists) may be able to jump off before it hits the wall, but the ones on the inside (permabulls who never left the train) will be properly f00ked.

Am I the only one who doesn't really care which way BTC goes as long as there's some volume and active trading going on?

At least I don't have to identify with circus trains transporting screaming bears and cultist bulls.

Oh lawd, +1 internet for you, sir!

1) Putting your life savings in BTC and hope to get rich with maximum risk of losing it all
2) Observe the market and play with the flow, taking profits regularly, manage risk, and having a steady income

Pick one. I'm pretty sure about which strategy actual successful traders choose.

MUH SOJINI

Can we cut the SJW bullcrap now and focus on observing walls?

For bitcoins sake.

Staffsan
billyjoeallen

Go here plz --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=34.0

So, not unlike a few days ago with the 30k sellwall, we're now hovering around a considerable buywall.

IIRC, in the first case, we hovered close, nibbled, and finally bought and this was hella bullish and BTC went up in price.

Now, we're hovering around the buywalls and it looks like they will be sold into. Can some cultists in here spin this into bullish sentiment for me?

There won't be 3-5K BTC  exchanged for fiat then?

It is inherently impossible to prove anything that's based on pure speculation and public opinion.

eg. You can't prove it's a bull market either.

Reading indicators equals forming personal opinions.
Also evidence =/= proof.

Proof originates from applying irrefutable logical steps from factual starting observations, providing a conclusion that cannot be contested.

Give me irrefutable proof and you shall receive 10 BTC from me personally.

This ain't no rally! This is a BULL TRAP.
What you think I'm STUPID?
I'm not a part of this SYS-TEM
HAPPY BITCOIN TO THE GROUND  

Seems like some people haven't earned their internets yet.

What a trader would say: Yay, volume and movement, let's have some fun.

Thanks for your money though.

The only true full retard is that you guys only now start to realize how fake all China volume has been right from the start. On every single one of those exchanges.

+1 for this. It seems like this gives us some insight in how their volume bot works; taking actual orders present in the order book, but faking their transactions at slightly different (randomized) positions. Because a (this time probably real) 500BTC wall is near, the bot glitches into that one, faking it multiple times.

But this is lead covering old iron. It's been established time and time again that all China exchanges played huge volume fakery scams.

Sometimes I wonder how you guys come up with this shit.

Looks like it got un-hidden and destroyed.

Just a heads up;

The walls showing on 376.05 on bitcoinwisdom and 377.21 on Bitstamp's own Tradeview are 100% FAKE.

As in, they dont actually exist. Watch the live data in the "limit order" screen of Bitstamp's trading platform and you'll see.

Especially the fake wall on Tradeview heavily bothers me - Bitstamp itself is giving out false data right now.

Bull tries to own bear, gets owned in return.

I'm going to say someone is simply trying to launder a large amount of coin.

Lol. Nothing happens, shocker. No bids, no sells, no trades.

Also such a bad move to not have a public ticker, AND don't allow non-US people to even create an account and watch the orderbook. I'm looking at this one, but I'm not sure if that's even accurate. If it is, that's pretty sad man, because that means literally no-one is biting.

Edit// whoop there we go. Talk about the devil. It seems like their public ticker has been fitted with a 10 minute delay - well played Winklevoss. I can already see them creating a shitstorm on their own exchange, only to play the right moves in the 10 minute time they have on all other major exchanges.

What an orderbook though. There's a few thousand dollar on the board.

Images of bouncing cats in 3.. 2.. 1..

Yes, safe to go all in now

Hey Adam.

Keep doing what you're doing man. Top job  

Oww who panic bought right there?

You make it sound like we can't keep buying one minute then selling one minute later...  

420 is the new 666

Looks like China broke downwards. GG.

Anyone else seeing that 50 BTC bot at stamp? I think he's broken.

Wait, the bubble wasn't?

#delusion

ITT: Adam trying to s(t)imulate mass despair in the hopes other people will pick up on that and reverse the trend.

Guess he still has some coins.

China premium!

The other way around this time though.

We all know what that means.

Sub 300 panic posts incoming in 3. 2. 1.

Now THAT'S a bulltrap - someone got swindled for 1k over at bitstamp, throwing it right into 450 for no reason.

No inside info, you're just not checking the right channels.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5pgkx9/btcc_to_start_charging_trading_fees_on_its_cny/
https://twitter.com/Austerity_Sucks/status/823142767807397888
https://twitter.com/YourBTCC/status/823137698865102848

Market reacted instantly, only 'crashed' 20 minutes later. That's not slow.

You were kidding yourself with that bogus line, that you drew towards the current downtick instead of the previous low in the uptrend like you should've, and you knew it. And the price now shows it too